|Black Phone 2 The Grabber’s Frozen-Hell Return + The Big “No-Kill” Controversy

Grab your parkas and check the phone lines—we’re heading back to Colorado, but the rules have changed. This week, Ambrose and Kelly dive deep into the snow-covered hellscape of Black Phone 2.

The sequel takes a massive swing, pivoting from the claustrophobic basement thriller of the original to an 80s-inspired "supernatural siege." We break down Ethan Hawke’s spectral return as the Grabber, the fascinating technical "visual map" used to separate dreams from reality, and why the horror community is so divided over the film’s "no kill" paradox. Is it a worthy evolution of Finney and Gwen’s story, or did the 80s slang dial it up a bit too far?

Warning: This episode contains full spoilers for Black Phone 2.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

• The Genre Pivot: How the franchise moved from a grounded thriller to a "Supernatural Siege" set at Camp Alpine Lake.

• The Ninth Circle of Hell: Exploring the Dante’s Inferno connection and why the Grabber’s new "frozen lake" domain is more than just a cool visual.

• Technical Deep Dive: Why the filmmakers used pristine 8.6K Sony Venice 2 digital cameras for the real world versus gritty, "reckless" Super 8 and Super 16 film for the dream sequences.

• The Dream Warrior Evolution: Gwen’s transition from fragmented visions to active combat, and Finney’s heartbreaking struggle with trauma-induced dissociation.

• The Ice-Skating Grabber: Breaking down that audacious (and terrifying) homage to 1983’s Curtains.

• The Controversy: Is the "spectral" Grabber too "polite"? We tackle the fan debate regarding the lack of a present-day body count.

• The Verdict: We head into the Critic’s Crypt to give our official rating in coffins.

QUESTION FOR YOU

Did the sequel’s “frozen-hell ghost” vibe work for you, or did the mythology homework take you out of it?

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Transcript

[Ambrose:] Welcome back, everybody. So this sequel basically grabs everything you loved from the first one, you know, the trauma, the siblings, the mask, all of it, and just hurls it into this snow-covered hellscape. It’s like it takes that gritty 70s thriller energy and cranks it into a full-blown 80s nightmare… where the killer has basically transcended death.

[Kelly:] It really does. And yeah, today we’re diving into that whole terrifying dream-versus-reality thing, because this sequel leans hard into it. And meanwhile, Finney and Gwen are dealing with a villain whose fear factor is… honestly higher than ever. Like, “Congrats, it got worse.”

[Ambrose:] Which is the perfect frame for what we’re doing today. We’re giving Black Phone 2 the full treatment, so we’re gonna dig into the story, the scares, the characters, and the big swings… and yeah, people are already in the comments acting like the movie personally stole their lunch money.

[Kelly:] Oh, for sure. The horror community does not play around when it comes to their favorites, so I’m not surprised. But honestly, I think a lot of that friction comes from just how big of a hurdle this movie had to clear. Because, you know, how do you even construct a high-stakes story when your main villain was… well… definitively killed? Like, he wasn't just "gone," he was chopped up and buried in the first one. Usually, that’s a wrap on the whole franchise, right?

[Ambrose:] And here’s the thing: they don’t ease into it. It’s a full-on genre pivot. Like… bold. Borderline reckless.

[Kelly:] Right? It’s a total swing. But honestly, they had to go big because they’re doing this really complex visual engineering to basically map out how these new rules of reality work. And meanwhile, they’re still diving way deeper into the psychological toll on Finney and Gwen. So, you know, it’s not just a standard “boo, ghost” movie—it’s more like “boo, trauma… and also, yeah, there’s a ghost.”

[Ambrose:] Okay, so let’s start there with the narrative architecture, because the first film works so well off this grounded, primal fear.

[Kelly:] Oh, for sure. I mean, it was just so incredibly claustrophobic, right? Like, people call it a supernatural thriller, which yeah, technically it is, but really it was all about that physical confinement. It was just one small, tangible, and honestly terrifying basement.  

[Ambrose:] Oh yeah, exactly, and that’s why the sequel feels like such a wild pivot, because it doesn’t stay in that tight little box. Instead, it opens everything up and goes way bigger, but then somehow it still keeps that trapped feeling, just in a different way. Like, you’re not stuck in one basement anymore, but you’re still stuck, and it honestly feels even lonelier.

[Kelly:] And that was a conscious move, according to Derrickson. He actually categorized the sequel not as a thriller, but as a high school horror film. And the key phrase I keep seeing is: a supernatural siege.

[Ambrose:] Oh a supernatural siege. So the tension shifts from, what, a locked door… to the entire environment?

[Kelly:] Yeah, exactly, because it’s not just “can you get out of the room” anymore, it’s “can you survive where you are.” So once it moves to Camp Alpine Lake up in the Rocky Mountains in the winter of 1982, the whole place becomes the trap, and that blizzard basically locks everyone in like a lid you can’t pry off.

[Ambrose:] So the isolation turns the whole camp into what critics were calling an inescapable kill box scenario.

[Kelly:] Well, it’s the ultimate kill box, right? Because you aren’t just trying to escape one room anymore. You’re actually trying to outrun an entire mountain range that’s completely shut down by the snow. So, I mean, that just immediately raises the stakes to a whole new level for everyone.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, totally, and because it’s that big and that locked-in, the whole vibe changes with it. Like, the fear isn’t just “what’s behind the door,” it’s “the world outside is just as bad.” And once you’ve got that kind of trapped-by-the-environment energy, it naturally starts feeling like those classic isolation horror setups people always bring up, where the location itself becomes part of the threat.

[Kelly:] Oh, absolutely. The Overlook Hotel and The Shining came up a lot.

[Ambrose:] Of course. And then the pure frozen paranoia of John Carpenter’s The Thing.

[Kelly:] Yes. The cold, the isolation, and that creeping sense that the danger isn’t just external. It’s environmental, and it’s supernatural.

[Ambrose:] And that shift is also kind of necessary because of the antagonist.

[Kelly:] Yeah, exactly, because it had to be the Grabber, right? But Ethan Hawke’s character isn’t just some fallible guy in a van anymore. He actually comes back as this full-blown spectral villain. So, you know, he’s a ghost or a poltergeist... basically something that’s completely transcended physical death.

[Ambrose:] Well, that’s the thing, right? Was there a lot of debate about that behind the scenes? Like, did anyone in the interviews ever go, "Hey, maybe we just shouldn’t bring him back"? Because honestly, the ending of the first movie was so perfect, and I feel like you really risk diluting that impact if you just... resurrect him.

[Kelly:] Oh, there was definitely a conversation about it. But from what I’ve read, the sources really suggest the main reason he’s back is because of Ethan Hawke himself. Apparently, he was just super into the idea of exploring the character more, but he wanted to do it in this way more mythological context.

[Ambrose:] Oh so he wasn’t just on board, he was actually the one driving the bus! That’s pretty wild, though, because usually you’d think the studio would be the one forcing a sequel for the paycheck, but if Ethan Hawke is the one asking to come back and get weird with the mythology, well, you’ve gotta give the man what he wants.

[Kelly:] Exactly, he really was the big motivation there. And so Derrickson and Cargill basically realized that if they were actually going to resurrect him, they couldn't just have him come back as a slightly crankier ghost. They knew he had to be fundamentally changed by the whole experience of dying, so they decided to go in a much more intense direction with him.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, and that’s the key part, because “the experience of death” can’t just be a line, right? It has to show up on him. So when he comes back, he looks like he went through it, like he’s still carrying the damage from how he died, and it makes him feel less like a guy haunting people and more like something that’s been twisted into a whole new kind of monster.

[Kelly:] Yes. And the mask. You know, the signature visual from the first film, is now perpetually coated in frost and rime. And it’s like the look itself is a clue. Like this is his frozen domain now.

[Ambrose:] And this is where the body horror starts creeping in. There’s that key moment where he removes the lower part of the mask and…

[Kelly:] …yeah, it is definitely not a human face under there anymore. Actually, the way the script describes it is just a pure nightmare. It’s this ghoulish, decaying mouth and a total zombie-like appearance. Honestly, it’s just gnarly.

[Ambrose:] Well, and it’s clearly the direct consequence of him being murdered and then just... rot-freezing in that perpetual cold punishment. So, he really has made the leap from being a human predator to a full-on supernatural predator.

[Kelly:] Totally. And what I like is they actually give his ghost form some rules. It’s not just random ghost magic.

[Ambrose:] Right. His supernatural strength is explicitly tethered to something.

[Kelly:] It is. It’s tethered to the restless, unavenged spirits of his first three victims: Felix, Cal, and Spike.

[Ambrose:] And those three boys become the mythological anchors for the whole sequel. Their bodies are buried at Camp Alpine Lake. He killed them there years before Finney.

[Kelly:] And that’s the key. His power is concentrated at that location. So the kids realize the only way to depower the spectral Grabber is finding the bodies and performing a burial ritual for those specific victims.

[Ambrose:] So what your saying is it turns into a spiritual scavenger hunt. Which is way bigger than just “escape the room.” Kind of thing.

[Kelly:] Exactly. It’s not just getting off the mountain, it’s putting souls to rest to defeat a monster. And it’s a HUGE swing.

[Ambrose:] And that leads to the Dante’s Inferno connection. Was that always part of the plan, or did they add it to justify bringing him back?

[Kelly:] Yeah, from what they’ve said in interviews, it sounds like that was always baked in, and that’s kind of the point. Because if you’re gonna bring him back, you need something that feels bigger than just “oh look, he’s a ghost now,” you know? So the Dante angle gives it a whole mythological framework, and it immediately makes the sequel feel like it’s playing in a different sandbox than a typical Hollywood haunt-and-jump-scare setup.

[Ambrose:] And the film makes it literal: the Grabber is operating from a version…

[Kelly:] …of Hell that is just completely frozen. And it’s actually a direct reference to Dante’s Inferno, specifically the Ninth Circle, so it’s like they’re pulling from some heavy literary stuff there. You know, it’s not your typical fire-and-brimstone setup, which makes the whole atmosphere feel so much more isolated.

[Ambrose:] And if you don’t know Dante’s map of Hell, the Ninth Circle isn’t the fiery one. It’s for the deepest treachery, and the worst of the worst.

[Kelly:] And the punishment is being frozen alive in a massive lake of ice.

[Ambrose:] And Derrickson was explicit about wanting a tapestry of cold.

[Kelly:] Oh he was. And the production design backs it up: relentless blue-white lighting, the crushing silence of the blizzard, frost everywhere, breath in the air. It feeds that medieval idea of spiritual punishment.

[Ambrose:] And the dialogue spells it out too. The Grabber taunts Finney over the payphone with that mythology. He says, “hell is not flames, Finney, it’s ice. Nothing burns like the cold.”

[Kelly:] Ugh, that is so chilling. But honestly, it just perfectly confirms exactly where he’s calling from, right? I mean, he is literally speaking from a place of eternal, punishing cold. So, it really makes that whole Dante connection feel so much more official and terrifying.

[Ambrose:] And he also quotes the inscription from the Gates of Hell when he’s dragging Gwen into his nightmare realm: “Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.”

[Kelly:] So yeah, it’s high-concept spiritual horror trying to give philosophical weight to what is, at its core, an 80s slasher homage.

[Ambrose:] Which brings us to the other big influence: critics and the filmmakers acknowledge this is a direct homage to A Nightmare on Elm Street…

[Kelly:] Specifically Dream Warriors. And Ethan Hawke was apparently told to channel his inner Freddy Krueger.

[Ambrose:] Oh, absolutely. And honestly, those parallels aren’t just subtle, they’re basically foundational to the whole movie, right? I mean, like you said, the Grabber is out there attacking his victims in their dreams—mostly Gwen—which is classic Freddy. But the really big shift here, and the part that actually makes it so terrifying, is how it just completely blurs the line between those two different realities.

[Kelly:] And this is where the movie’s terror really locks in: injuries in the dream state manifest instantly and physically in the waking world.

[Ambrose:] So the dreams are deadly just like in A Nightmare on Elm Street.

[Kelly:] Yep.

[Ambrose:] And the kitchen scene is the perfect illustration of that rule.

[Kelly:] Oh, it’s incredible. Gwen is lucidly fighting the Grabber in her dream. She sees him, she’s punching and kicking this spectral thing.

[Ambrose:] Meanwhile in the real world, her body is being violently thrashed against walls, slammed onto the kitchen table, thrown across the room by an invisible force.

[Kelly:] Honestly, that part is just so hard to watch because Finney and the others are forced to just stand there and witness it, so they’re completely helpless. Like, imagine the terror of seeing your sister getting assaulted by absolutely nothing and knowing there is literally nothing you can do to stop it.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, totally. Plus, it really drives home the idea that the trauma is just instantly real. I mean, even if the whole attack starts in a dream state, just closing your eyes and falling asleep actually becomes a potentially lethal choice. It is a complete nightmare, literally.

[Kelly:] And if you’re going to blur that line between high-fidelity reality and grainy tactile nightmares, the audience needs a clear, unmissable visual guide.

[Ambrose:] Right, and that’s honestly why those visual cues are so vital, because they give us a roadmap for when the stakes actually shift. And once you see that change in the film's texture, you realize the safety of the real world is gone, so then just closing your eyes becomes this potentially lethal gamble. It really turns a natural human function into a trap, and that’s what makes the whole thing feel like such a literal, inescapable nightmare.

[Kelly:] Yep. And that’s really the core challenge here, because the story gets complicated fast, so the movie has to make it crystal clear what you’re looking at and when.

[Ambrose:] Right, because you really can’t just rely on a few context clues when the plot is moving that fast. I mean, the visual grammar basically had to be so strong that you just know exactly what layer of reality you’re in. It’s almost like they had to give the audience a visual map, sort of like how they handled the different layers in The Matrix so no one got lost, you know?

[Kelly:] Exactly. And so to make that map work, they landed on this dual optics approach. They basically pitted the absolute peak of modern digital tech against a deliberately flawed, retro analog aesthetic. So, just by looking at the texture of the shot, you know exactly which reality you’re standing in.

[Ambrose:] Well, let's look at the high-tech side of that coin first. For the waking world—you know, the camp scenes, all that snow, and those night exteriors—they went with this incredibly pristine, high-fidelity digital capture to make everything feel super sharp and grounded.

[Kelly:] Specifically, the Sony Venice 2, shooting in 8.6K.

[Ambrose:] And that wasn’t just flexing, right? It was driven by the conditions.

[Kelly:] Yeah. They were shooting night exteriors with actors against blindingly reflective snowy mountains in Canada, doubling for Colorado.

[Ambrose:] And the benefit of 8.6K isn’t just image size. It’s the dynamic range the Venice 2 gives you in that high-contrast environment.

[Kelly:] Exactly. Deep shadows, bright snow, and the camera holds detail in both, so you avoid that washed-out look.

[Ambrose:] Plus the resolution gives you latitude in post: stabilization, punch-ins, adjusting for formats like IMAX, without losing quality.

[Kelly:] Basically maximum technical insurance against the chaos of shooting on location in a blizzard.

[Ambrose:] And that clean clarity makes the nightmares feel even more shocking.

[Kelly:] It has to. Because for the dream realm—Gwen’s nightmares, the visions, that metaphysical space where the Grabber operates, they went full analog. Super 8 film, and sometimes Super 16.

[Ambrose:] And the goal was to make it deliberately grainy and fuzzy, a hard contrast to the high-res digital.

[Kelly:] Exactly. They were like old, forgotten home-movie footage you find in a dusty attic. Derrickson wanted the recklessness of Super 8.

[Ambrose:] And when he says “recklessness,” he means embracing the real film artifacts: scratches, dust, dirt, specks in the gate, light leaks, and sometimes bad focus or shaky frame lines.

[Kelly:] Exactly. So the whole thing is supposed to feel really transgressive and visceral... like, honestly, it almost physically hurts to watch, you know? And the cool thing is that they pulled that off without relying on any digital filters or cheap effects. It is actually real film, so you’re getting that genuine, raw grit on screen.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, and that’s what makes it impressive, because doing it for real comes with a bunch of headaches. Like, it’s one thing to say “let’s make it look rough,” but it’s another thing to keep the scene readable and the performances clean while you’re committing to that kind of messy texture.

[Kelly:] Exactly, because film like that can be a total pain. The reels are short, it can be inconsistent, and it doesn’t always play nice, so they’re basically choosing chaos on purpose… but if you pull it off, it looks amazing.

[Ambrose:] So how did they pull it off?

[Kelly:] Well, they got innovative. They developed a custom format they affectionately called Super 12.

[Ambrose:] Super 12 huh. So it’s like this middle ground between Super 8 vibes and Super 16 reliability?

[Kelly:] Exactly. They used professional cinema cameras—Arriflex 416—shooting Super 16.

[Ambrose:] So you get stability, and longer runtimes, with sync sound.

[Kelly:] Right. But to get the Super 8 texture, they applied an aggressive 2.39:1 crop to the negative in post.

[Ambrose:] Ah, so you’re magnifying a smaller portion of the image.

[Kelly:] Yep. Grain and dirt get bigger proportionally in the final projection, so it mimics the low-res, high-grain Super 8 look.

[Ambrose:] That’s genuinely genius. You get the technical capability, but you still keep that non-negotiable grime aesthetic.

[Kelly:] And it let them do complicated stunts, sync dialogue, and Video Effect plates—then intentionally degrade later. Ekberg even admitted sometimes the actual flawed, out-of-focus, scratched Super 8 footage came back looking so good aesthetically that they scrambled to integrate it anyway.

[Ambrose:] That level of commitment to authentic analog imperfection is awesome. But the real genius is the transitions. How do you shift between pristine digital and gritty analog without it feeling like just a hard cut?

[Kelly:] They used a physical on-set technique. They called it the “rough lineup.”

[Ambrose:] A “rough lineup.” Eh.

[Kelly:] Yeah. For shots that move between realities—like Finney watching Gwen’s dream begin or end—they’d shoot the frame on film first, marking position precisely. Then they’d swap the Arriflex for the Sony Venice 2 and shot the exact same frame and movement.

[Ambrose:] That sounds insanely time-consuming.

[Kelly:] It is, but the payoff is huge. It lets the editors morph between formats, and you’re feeling the physical differences. You know, lens curvature, color science, and texture.

[Ambrose:] Right, and since those lenses actually have different distortion and breathing, the whole image shifts in a way that’s just genuinely disorienting. It’s like your brain can’t quite settle because the literal texture of the world is changing right in front of you as they slip into that nightmare space.

[Kelly:] Exactly. That subtle change—breathing, distortion, texture—becomes part of the horror. It’s a camera swap that creates metaphysical terror.

[Ambrose:] But all that only works if we care about who’s watching. So how does this visual chaos hit the emotional core of Finney and Gwen? Because the movie really hinges on their shared trauma.

[Kelly:] Totally. The filmmakers were clear: they came back to explore the love and trauma-bonded relationship between brother and sister years later. It’s basically a study of how they’ve grown—or failed to.

[Ambrose:] Okay, let’s start with Finney Blake. We left him finding courage in the first film. Now, at 17, he’s devolved. He goes from victim who found courage to traumatized, repressed aggressor.

[Kelly:] And he’s defined by suppressed anger and avoidance, mirroring his father’s substance-fueled coping mechanisms from the first film. It’s tragic full circle.

[Ambrose:] Oh, completely. It is like he is falling into the exact same trap, which is just heartbreaking. And it is actually really specific how he is trying to dodge everything, too. Like, he is leaning so hard into smoking weed, you know? He is basically just constantly high to try and drown out the noise of his past so he doesn’t have to deal with those memories or any of the supernatural stuff popping back up. He is just trying to numb the whole thing out.

[Kelly:] And he chooses dissociation. And it’s a powerful psychological choice, because he refuses to engage with the supernatural world that saved him.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, and you see that refusal in the little moments too, because he’ll literally walk past those broken payphones when they’re ringing, like he can hear it and he’s just going, “Nope, not doing this.” So it’s not that the weird stuff isn’t still there, it’s that he’s choosing to ignore it, because if he lets himself engage even once, then all that trauma comes rushing back, and he’s trying to keep it locked away.

[Kelly:] Even if it means denying the gift that saved his life. But suppressing fear just turns into aggression.

[Ambrose:] There’s that early scene where he brutally beats a new student who mocks his abduction. And it’s not just self-defense—it’s performative violence.

[Kelly:] He’s trying to intimidate the world into leaving him alone. Like, “Look how tough I am, I wasted a serial killer.”

[Ambrose:] But it’s masking a terrified, broken kid. He’s adopting the language of violence he learned in captivity so he never feels weak again.

[Kelly:] And that leads to the thematic resolution: in the climax, when the payphone at Camp Alpine Lake rings one last time, Gwen answers and speaks to their deceased mother… and Finney can’t hear the ringing at all.

[Ambrose:] That’s heartbreaking. He’s successfully severed his connection to the supernatural.

[Kelly:] He has. He chooses survival and moving on, even if it means losing the psychic gift that protected him. It’s painful, but it suggests his arc is complete.

[Ambrose:] Now contrast that with Gwen Blake, now 15.

[Kelly:] Yeah, because Gwen almost goes the opposite direction. Like, in the first one she’s mostly reacting and getting these visions that kind of just hit her, but in this one she steps up and starts driving the whole thing. So instead of being the kid who’s like, “I saw something,” she becomes the one who’s like, “Okay, then we’re doing something about it,” and she’s way more active and aggressive about pushing back.

[Ambrose:] And she accepts her psychic heritage. She even says, “I’m a freak like my mom,” and she leans into it.

[Kelly:] And it’s kinda like Dream Warriors. Because her abilities evolve from fragmented visions she couldn’t control into active combat.

[Ambrose:] And then she becomes lucid in the dream world, and that’s the shift. She realizes she actually has control here, and she straight-up says, “I chose to come here.” That’s the moment everything clicks for her.

[Kelly:] And the physical proof of her power is that psychic blast scene in the phone booth. Cornered by the Grabber in the dream world, she focuses and literally explodes the dream version of the booth to repel him.

[Ambrose:] It’s her definitive Dream Warrior moment for sure. And her inherited power becomes a weapon.

[Kelly:] And her defiance shows up in her communication too. Her foul-mouthed personality gets amplified, and it becomes verbal armor.

[Ambrose:] Oh right. She uses really colorful language—like calling the camp counselor Barbara a “sanctimonious quat”—to push away adults who deny her experience.

[Kelly:] It’s her way of creating distance when nobody believes her. Language as a weapon, like Finney uses physical aggression.

[Ambrose:] So they’re both trying to control the uncontrollable aftermath of trauma, just in totally different ways.

[Kelly:] Yes. And Gwen’s investigation leads to the big family history twist that reframes their mother’s death, Hope Adler. It’s a massive retcon.

[Ambrose:] It is. The film reveals Hope didn’t die by suicide.

[Kelly:] Exactly. She was murdered by the Grabber, and he staged it to look like suicide.

[Ambrose:] Now that changes everything. Because it reframes the family’s grief and their father’s alcoholism and abuse. So why did he murder her?

[Kelly:] Because Hope was psychically gifted like Gwen, and she was investigating the Grabber after connecting with the camp’s victims via a psychic phone call back in 1957. She got too close.

[Ambrose:] Oooh, so the Grabber’s been connected to their family for decades.

[Kelly:] Exactly. And Terrence, the father, has been living with guilt—thinking his wife was mentally ill or that he failed her—when she was actually a victim of the same killer who later targeted his son.

[Ambrose:] And it forces Terrence to confront his own trauma and guilt. It retroactively makes him more sympathetic, because he’s been crushed by a manufactured lie.

[Kelly:] And it ties the Grabber’s vengeance to the entire Blake family line, not just Finney.

[Ambrose:] Right. Because it takes it from one kidnapping to a generational spiritual battle.

[Kelly:] Exactly. And with those emotional stakes plus the new spectral rules, the film goes for some audacious set pieces.

[Ambrose:] Oh, we have to talk about the sheer audacity of the ice-skating Grabber scene.

[Kelly:] Yes, because it’s so aggressively 80s in the best way. Like, we’re in the climax on this frozen lake, and then the Grabber shows up with the frosted mask, axe in hand, and he just casually glides toward them on ice skates like he’s in a nightmare figure-skating routine. [laughs] I was like, “Wait… excuse me??”

[Ambrose:] Yeah, and that’s exactly why it works, because it’s such a ridiculous image, but it’s also genuinely creepy. Like, the lake is dead quiet, everything’s frozen solid, and then this silent masked thing just slides into frame like the world’s worst Olympic event. It’s like dream rules, and you don’t even have time to argue with it, because you’re already panicking.

[Kelly:] Exactly. It’s terrifying, but it also has that slightly goofy absurdity that 80s genre horror did so well.

[Ambrose:] And it pays homage to Curtains from 1983, with that famous killer-on-skates sequence.

[Kelly:] Oooh it does. And the movement contrast is brutal. I mean he’s smooth and controlled while these teens are scrambling on slippery ice. It’s like he owns the whole frozen hell.

[Ambrose:] And the final resolution is equally iconic: the underwater grave.

[Kelly:] Yep. Once they locate and ritualistically acknowledge the bodies of Felix, Cal, and Spike, the ghosts of those boys emerge from the frozen lake and act as a collective force taking vengeance.

[Ambrose:] And then they just pull him down, right? It is such a wild visual because they drag the spectral Grabber deep into the icy water, basically trapping him forever in that frozen prison. It feels like a really definitive end for him, well, at least for this movie anyway. And honestly, there is something so fitting about that poetic justice—he is literally dragged down by the very kids whose spirits were actually the ones giving him power in the first place.

[Kelly:] Well, it is definitely a satisfying moment, but actually, that whole clean resolution and the shift in focus led to some pretty big arguments among the fans. It mostly circles back to this whole no kill paradox thing that people are really hung up on lately.

[Ambrose:] Oh, for sure, and that is exactly where the audience really started to split. Because, I mean, the movie clearly shows us that the Grabber can do some serious real-world damage—like when he is thrashing Gwen’s body all over the kitchen—but then he doesn’t actually manage to kill off a single major character in the present timeline. So, you know, for a lot of people, that just felt a little bit too safe.

[Kelly:] And he has opportunities. He confronts camp counselors like Barbara and Kenneth, and even Gwen’s new friend Ernesto, but never delivers a fatal blow.

[Ambrose:] And a lot of viewers hated that. They called the spectral villain impotent, or the film too polite, and said it lacked the body count you’d expect from a supernatural assault movie.

[Kelly:] And you know, they definitely realized that was going to be a big risk for them. But honestly, it wasn't like some oversight or anything—it was actually a very deliberate choice they made for the movie. They really wanted to lean into that different vibe instead of just stacking up bodies.

[Ambrose:] And they refused a studio note asking them to kill off someone like Barbara. And they cited The Changeling from 1980 as inspiration for low body count, high atmosphere horror.

[Kelly:] Which matters, because The Changeling is slow burn and psychological horror, not slash-and-gore.

[Ambrose:] So they chose tone and psychological terror over satisfying attack-horror body count expectations. The Grabber’s terror is mostly dream plane manipulation, not physical kills.

[Kelly:] But another big frustration was character consistency, especially Finney’s reaction to the location.

[Ambrose:] Right. Some viewers thought it was inconsistent that a teenager with severe PTSD—who’s using marijuana to suppress memories—would willingly travel to Camp Alpine Lake and even enter the old basement structure without immediately having a breakdown.

[Kelly:] Exactly, and honestly, for a lot of people, that just felt kind of contrived just to get the plot moving, you know? I mean, it is a huge leap to go from being so paralyzed by your past that you’re constantly numbing yourself to just walking right back into the lion’s den without even a second thought.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, and it’s almost like all those deep avoidance mechanisms he’s been building up just completely vanish the moment the script needs him to be the hero. It definitely pulls you out of the story a bit when a character acts so differently just to make sure the next scene can happen.

[Kelly:] And then, maybe the single biggest friction point: the dialogue.

[Ambrose:] Oh yeah. This was widely criticized, especially Gwen’s lines.

[Kelly:] Many viewers found it cringey, forced, or overly crammed with 80s slang. Some reviewers even said it felt terrible or AI-written because the slang was so inorganic.

[Ambrose:] And it wasn’t just the occasional curse word. It was the constant, researched-sounding, period-specific slang that didn’t feel like a real 15-year-old in 1982.

[Kelly:] And it made emotional scenes—like Gwen talking to her father about their mother’s death—feel jarring and inauthentic, because the lingo kept popping up.

[Ambrose:] And it undercut the emotional weight. The “authenticity” attempt clashed with the sincerity needed for trauma scenes.

[Kelly:] And for those critics, it made the siblings’ connection feel less believable.

[Ambrose:] But despite all the division and the dialogue critiques, commercially, it was a big success for Blumhouse.

[Kelly:] Oh Huge. It opened to $27.3 million domestically and hit $132.1 million globally.

[Ambrose:] And that return ranks it 86th on the all-time worldwide horror box office list, which confirms the franchise has serious staying power.

[Kelly:] And critically, even with the mixed reactions, the ambition got rewarded. It even scored 74% on Rotten Tomatoes and around 60 or 61 on Metacritic.

[Ambrose:] Which reflects the split: people who loved the bold genre shift, the Dante mythology, and the distinct visual language were really positive. But people who felt the plot was contrived and the dialogue inconsistent fueled the negative side.

[Kelly:] So what does it all mean? We’ve mapped this ambitious—almost reckless—shift. Grainy, flawed Super 8 against pristine 8.6K digital, plus the Grabber evolving into this Freddy Krueger-esque ice demon, and the painful evolution of Finney and Gwen.

[Ambrose:] Well, it’s a risk that’s guaranteed to thrill some people and drive others up the wall. But the big question still hangs there, and it builds right off the Grabber’s own words: did they actually finish him off?

[Kelly:] I mean, he ends the film dragged into the icy depths, trapped by his victims. But he already told Finney, “dead is just a word,” right?

[Ambrose:] Yeah, exactly! And so if you really think about it alongside that whole Dante’s Inferno concept where treachery is punished by being frozen in ice, then you definitely have to consider the possibility of a thaw happening down the road. I mean, if he’s just sitting there in the deep freeze of that ninth circle, who’s to say he couldn’t eventually claw his way back out? It definitely leaves the door wide open for something more.

[Kelly:] Especially since he’s now established as a spectral villain operating from a frozen hell. And Ethan Hawke has voiced his desire for a third film exploring the Grabber’s origins before his death.

[Ambrose:] So what’s the next circle for a ghost who fundamentally can’t stay put? If the first film was a basement and the second was a frozen mountain… maybe the next is an unfrozen hell.

[Kelly:] Which is a truly upsetting thought to end on. But yeah, we’ve covered creative intent and technical specs… and now we’ve gotta hear from the trenches.

[Ambrose:] Because we can theorize all day, but the real question is: what did the hardest-hitting reviews say?

[Kelly:] And what did the most intense horror fans think about this radical change of direction?

[Ambrose:] Yeah, honestly, the hardcore fans were all over the place with that one, but I think that is actually a perfect lead-in for us to finally wrap this all up. So, let’s get into our final thoughts and see if we actually end up seeing eye-to-eye with the general consensus or if we’re totally on our own here.

[Kelly:] Oh, for sure, because I have a feeling we might have some pretty strong opinions on this. So, why don’t we go ahead and head down into the Critic’s Crypt right now so we can give this movie our official verdict?

[Ambrose] Alright, so we’re in the Critic’s Crypt, and I’m not saying the air just got colder, but my nose is doing that “winter incoming” thing.

[Kelly] Yeah, and I’m not saying I regret this, but also I absolutely regret this.

[Ambrose] You were the one like, “Let’s do our verdict where it’s spooky.” So, congrats. You won. We’re spooky.

[Kelly] Okay, but it’s on brand, and also, if something grabs my ankle, I’m blaming you forever.

[Ambrose] That’s fair. Although if something grabs my ankle, I’m blaming you too, because you manifest weird stuff.

[Kelly] I do not manifest weird stuff. I simply notice the weird stuff. There’s a difference.

[Ambrose] Sure. And meanwhile, I’m just trying to talk about Black Phone 2 without the crypt walls whispering “dead is just a word” at me.

[Kelly] Stop. Don’t say it out loud. That’s how you get cursed.

[Ambrose] Okay, okay. So, “final thoughts” time. Pros first, because if we start with cons, you’re gonna spiral.

[Kelly] Both true and rude, but also yes. Pros. Let’s do pros.

[Ambrose] First pro, and it’s a big one. The scares actually work. Not only jump scares, but also that slow dread. Like, you know something’s wrong, and you still can’t stop watching.

[Kelly] Yes. And the movie does that thing where it doesn’t let you feel safe, even when people are just talking. Like, a normal scene becomes a trap, because you’re waiting for the phone or the ice or whatever to show up.

[Ambrose] And the Grabber design in this one? It’s wild. It’s like… if Freddy Krueger got a winter job as a nightmare snowman.

[Kelly] That is stupid, but it’s also accurate. Because he’s not just a guy in a mask anymore. He feels like a ghost villain with rules, and it makes him scarier.

[Ambrose] Yeah, and those rules tie into that whole Dante vibe they went for. So even though it’s kind of a swing, it gives the movie a bigger feel.

[Kelly] And I liked the mood. The look is creepy. The grainy stuff feels nasty in a good way, and then the clean digital parts feel too sharp, like it’s watching you back.

[Ambrose] Exactly. It’s both ugly and pretty, and that’s kind of the point. Plus the sound is great. The phone stuff still hits, because it’s simple, but it’s also like a punch in your chest.

[Kelly] Also, acting. The kids, especially. Finney and Gwen feel older, and they’re tired in a real way. Like, trauma tired. And that helps, because if they were acting all chill, I’d be like, “Nope, not buying it.”

[Ambrose] Right, and it makes the emotional stuff land when it’s allowed to land. When the movie chills out and lets a scene breathe, it’s actually really good.

[Kelly] And the pacing is mostly solid. Like, it moves. It doesn’t just sit there explaining rules for 40 minutes, although it does explain some things.

[Ambrose] Okay, so that’s a clean slide into cons. Because, yeah… cons time.

[Kelly] Yep. Now let’s talk cons, since we’re brave, or at least pretending we are.

[Ambrose] My biggest con is the story can feel a little stacked. Like it keeps adding layers, and after a while I’m like, okay, but can we finish one thing before we open three more doors?

[Kelly] Yes, and some of that Dante stuff can feel like homework. Not always, but sometimes. Like the movie is whispering, “Did you get the reference?” and I’m like, “I’m here to be scared, not to take a quiz.”

[Ambrose] Also the dialogue. We talked about it. The 80s slang thing gets weird, because it’s so heavy. It’s not just a little flavor. It’s like they dumped the whole spice rack in the soup.

[Kelly] And it hurts the emotional scenes, because you’re trying to feel something, and then a line pops out that sounds like a person Googled “cool 80s teen words” at 2 a.m.

[Ambrose] Yeah. And another con, for me, is the tone shift. Sometimes it’s super serious trauma, and then it’s like spooky mythology lore dump, and then it’s like big monster moment. So it can feel jumpy, even though the scares are good.

[Kelly] I agree, although I think the movie mostly earns the chaos. Still, there are parts where I wanted it to pick a lane, because it starts to feel like two movies sharing one hoodie.

[Ambrose] That’s a perfect way to say it. And I’ll add one more. A couple jumps felt cheap. Not a ton, but enough that I noticed.

[Kelly] Yeah, like the kind where the music screams at you, but the thing on screen isn’t that scary. So your brain is like, “Okay, calm down, movie.”

[Ambrose] Okay. So. Pros, cons, we survived. Now ratings.

[Kelly] “Survived” is bold, since I just heard something drip behind us.

[Ambrose] It’s fine. It’s just… crypt juice. Anyway. We rate out of 5 coffins, because we’re classy like that.

[Kelly] Love that for us. You go first.

[Ambrose] Alright. I’m giving Black Phone 2 a 3.5 out of 5 coffins. Because the scares hit, the mood is strong, and the villain upgrade is genuinely creepy. But the dialogue issues and the story stacking keep it from being fully smooth.

[Kelly] 3.5, okay. That’s like, “I’m impressed, but I’m also annoyed.”

[Ambrose] Exactly. I’m clapping with one hand and pointing at the script with the other.

[Kelly] Okay, my turn. I’m giving it a 4 out of 5 coffins. Because even though some lines made me cringe, I still felt tense a lot, and the whole frozen-hell ghost vibe worked on me. Also, the movie made me feel sad and scared, and I hate that, so it wins.

[Ambrose] A 4. Wow. You’re generous today.

[Kelly] I’m not generous. I’m honest. Plus, I like when a sequel takes a risk, even if it faceplants a little.

[Ambrose] That’s fair. And honestly, a 4 isn’t crazy. It’s just… you’re gonna get us haunted saying that in here.

[Kelly] If a ghost shows up and asks my rating, I’ll say 4 again. I stand by it.

[Ambrose] Okay, speaking of ghosts, tell me you didn’t hear that.

[Kelly] Hear what.

[Ambrose] That. Like a little scrape. Like stone on stone.

[Kelly] I hate you. Yes, I heard it.

[Ambrose] Okay, cool, cool. So we’re not alone, and that’s awesome.

[Kelly] Maybe it’s the crypt keeper. Maybe he’s just… doing crypt stuff.

[Ambrose] “Doing crypt stuff” sounds like a bad hobby. Like, “Yeah, I scrapbook.” “I do crypt stuff.”

[Kelly] Stop talking, because when you joke, it makes it feel real.

[Ambrose] It is real. That’s the problem. Did your flashlight just flicker?

[Kelly] No. Mine’s steady. Yours is the one doing the haunted strobe thing.

[Ambrose] It’s not haunted. It’s just… cheap. I bought it online.

[Kelly] That’s worse. You brought budget gear into a murder basement.

[Ambrose] It’s not a murder basement. It’s a crypt.

[Kelly] That’s the same family of bad, Ambrose.

[Ambrose] Okay, okay. We did our ratings. We did pros and cons. We can leave now. We can simply walk out like normal humans.

[Kelly] Yes. We can do that. Both of us. Together. Not splitting up. Neither you go first nor me go first. We go at the same time.

[Ambrose] Great plan. Except the hallway is like one person wide.

[Kelly] Then we go shoulder to shoulder like two scared penguins.

[Ambrose] Fine. Penguin mode.

[Kelly] Wait. Wait, wait. Did you feel that?

[Ambrose] Feel what.

[Kelly] A cold breeze. Like, right on my neck. And I’m not being dramatic. I swear.

[Ambrose] I felt it too. And it’s not a normal breeze. It feels like… a sigh.

[Kelly] Nope. Don’t like that. Not one bit.

[Ambrose] Okay, we’re leaving. Now.

[Kelly] Agreed. And also, I swear, if the crypt keeper jumps out and goes “boo,” I’m suing the dead.

[Ambrose] Shh.

[Kelly] What.

[Ambrose] There’s footsteps. Slow ones.

[Kelly] That’s probably us. That’s echo.

[Ambrose] We’re not moving.

[Kelly] Oh. Right. Cool. So then it’s not us.

[Ambrose] Exactly.

[Kelly] Okay. Okay. We just walk. Calm. We don’t run. Because running is how you trip, and then you die, and then you become the crypt keeper’s coworker.

[Ambrose] Great motivation. Love that. Alright. One step. Two step. Penguin step.

[Kelly] Your light is flickering more.

[Ambrose] I know. I know. I’m tapping it, but it’s doing the thing.

[Kelly] Don’t tap it. That’s how it fully dies.

[Ambrose] If I don’t tap it, it dies anyway. It’s dramatic like you.

[Kelly] Shut up. The scrape again. Right behind us.

[Ambrose] Okay, yep, we’re done. We’re done. We’re leaving. Fast walk. Not a run. A fast walk.

[Kelly] Ambrose.

[Ambrose] Yeah.

[Kelly] Tell me you see that shadow moving on the wall.

[Ambrose] I do. And I hate that I do.

[Kelly] Okay. Door. Door. Where’s the door.

[Ambrose] Forward. Forward. Keep forward.

[Kelly] Why is it darker. It wasn’t this dark.

[Ambrose] Because my flashlight is staging a death scene.

[Kelly] I’m going first. I don’t even care. I’m first. Move.

[Ambrose] Okay, go, go, go.

[Kelly] Crypt keeper! Hey! We’re leaving! Totally normal review! Great vibes!

[Ambrose] Great vibes, yeah! Love the decor!

[Kelly] The door is stuck.

[Ambrose] Of course it is. Of course it is.

[Kelly] Help me pull it. Both hands. Now.

[Ambrose] One, two, pull!

[Kelly] It moved. It moved a little.

[Ambrose] Again. One, two, pull!

[Kelly] Okay, it’s open. It’s open. Go, go, go!

[Ambrose] After you!

[Kelly] No, after you!

[Ambrose] Kelly, go!

[Kelly] Fine! But if I die, you’re posting my rating for me!

[Ambrose] Deal! Just go!

[Kelly] Ambrose, the lights just went out!

[Ambrose] Kelly? Kelly, I can’t see, I can’t see, I can’t see, what is that sou—